Trauma Queen
"The Trauma Within" is a weekly podcast hosted by Jimanekia, a Trauma and Sexual Assault expert, queer media consultant, and comprehensive sex educator. Join us as we normalize conversations about life's most challenging experiences, from sexual assault to mental health and beyond. Discover stories of resilience, expert insights, and a safe space for discussing some of life's most complex topics. Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/traumaqueen/support
Trauma Queen
The Trauma Within Navigating Sex Positivity, Trauma, and Healing Journeys W/ Kate Loree
Do you have any questions, any comments about the episode? Jimanekia would love to hear from you!
Exploring the life and work of a transformative therapist, this narrative unveils the story of Kate Loree, a sex-positive therapist dedicated to helping others find healing and connection. Through her advocacy for marginalized communities, including the kink community, non-monogamous individuals, sex workers, and LGBTQ+ people, Kate brings a compassionate, socially conscious approach to therapy. Her practice integrates a unique blend of social justice, art therapy, trauma work, and psychedelic healing, where tools like ketamine therapy reveal new dimensions of self-discovery and healing.
Kate’s journey began in her childhood, navigating a landscape marked by bigotry and sexual shame. Moving from Oregon to Alabama, she grappled with cultural stigmas, which ultimately shaped her path towards a career focused on trauma, creativity, and embracing diverse identities. These experiences have uniquely prepared her to help others overcome similar challenges, using her own life’s hurdles as a guiding light.
In this candid conversation, Kate opens up about her personal experiences with metastatic cervical cancer, a reality that—even in remission—impacts her daily life. She shares her reliance on meditation, exercise, and a deep connection to source energy, tools that help her find balance in the face of life’s uncertainties. We delve into her philosophy on self-care, the power of setting boundaries, and how navigating the healthcare system as a patient with a serious illness has sharpened her understanding of systemic inequalities.
As the conversation unfolds, Kate highlights the beauty of synchronicity and divine connection in her life and work. With a sense of wonder, she describes the grounding joy she finds in life’s small and grand moments alike—whether in her connection to ancestral wisdom, nature, or the universe’s subtle interconnections. This journey is as much about embracing gratitude and healing as it is about celebrating life's marvels. Join us for an inspiring exploration of resilience, self-compassion, and the profound impact of choosing joy amidst adversity.
Thank you all for listening. Set a boundary with yourself this week, set a boundary with someone else. If someone else does not respect that boundary. LET THEM LOOSE YOU! Stay hydrated internally and externally. We do not have an ashy family.
IG: @The_Trauma_Within
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@thetraumawithin
Jimanekia Ig: @Jimanekia
hello everyone. So this should be a fun talk. I think this is a conversation that's going to leave you with more questions, and we love that, because that means you're going to learn things, um, so my first question to my guests you've already heard about means you're going to learn things, so my first question to my guests you've already heard about, which you are going to learn so much more about, the first question of the show is who?
Speaker 2:are you? Oh Lordy, there's layers there. So I'm a sex positive therapist. To me that means that not only do I fight against sexual shame, but also I'm a social justice therapist. I definitely represent and serve the kink community, non-monogamous sex workers, LGBTQ communities. I'm also an art therapist, I'm a trauma therapist, so a lot of times I'll get clients that are in those communities that also need to do EMDR. I'm also the author of a book called Open Deeply a guide to conscious, compassionate, open relationships, and so I also get a lot of clients that are looking to work on their relationship in my private practice. In my private practice. And let's see beyond trauma. Art, oh, and then psychedelics. I am starting to explore the world of psychedelics. Just finished a certification in psychedelic harm reduction and integration and learning how to sit with ketamine. But beyond that, the more you do psychedelics and stuff, you realize that you are part of the humming, vibrating, sensual, sexual, spiritual hum of life, and I'm part of that as well.
Speaker 1:I love the way you put that. I'm like, ooh, I want to be humming, I'm humming, I love this. How did that? I'm like, ooh, I want to be humming, I'm humming, I love this. How did we meet? How do you remember it?
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I, there is only one degree of separation between you and me with so many people both in my practice and outside of my practice.
Speaker 2:I have clients that bring up your name. I have friends that bring up your name. I'm not exactly sure how we initially met, but I do know that you show up in different realms in terms of trauma or sexual abuse, but also sex positivity and all that. I'm not sure where we first met, but I do know my heart connected to your heart, just on my side, just hearing how much people loved you and why.
Speaker 1:That's sweet.
Speaker 2:And continue to love you.
Speaker 1:The people are not calling me bitches to your face. That's fine. What does trauma mean to you?
Speaker 2:Um what does trauma?
Speaker 1:mean to you.
Speaker 2:I mean, I could talk about that for years, but, um, I I do. Uh, you had a previous guess that that said something similar. You know, I do think about it in terms of how it shows up within the person, and everybody is different. Um, some people might have a traumatic event and they're not traumatized. Another person could have a trauma history and they might have some borderline personality disorder symptoms. Another person might be DID and have alters. Another person might have PTSD. So you know, it shows up differently with everyone and how they contend with it shows up differently.
Speaker 1:I wrote a line and I just think it's funny. I think we need to get to the roots before we get to the meal. I must have been elevated when I wrote that, because I didn't even sound like me, but I think it is truly important to know how you got to where you are. So how did you get here? What was baby Kate like? How did you become this well-rounded human of a therapist, of just existing, being someone that is seeking? How did you become that person?
Speaker 2:All righty. So I was born in Oregon. My family are Canadians. My mother was born in Canada. I started out being very creative. There was a whole wall of we had a vaulted ceiling with just artwork going up to the top. I was definitely I like to be a slip, but I used it as a tutu and if my mom had guests over, I would, you know, do a ballet dance, you know, spontaneously in front of all of her friends. I could go on. I did puppet plays over my little canopy bed. I'd put a sheet in front, like I was super creative, yeah. And then my dad left without a note.
Speaker 2:When I was six, my mom and I were on a trip. We came back. He had. When I was six, my mom and I were on a trip. We came back, he had cleared out and my mom was pretty devastated. And so my grandpa, who had gone from Canada, got his PhD in psychedelic where did that come from? In educational psych, and he had landed in Alabama, and so that is why a whole bunch of Canadians ended up in Tuscaloosa, alabama. My mom left Oregon and then I was raised in Alabama, and so a lot of who I am is in reaction to that Tuscaloosa was the kind of place that you could accidentally run into a KKK rally, which happened twice, you know. So I was sexually shamed when I was still a virgin, you know, that's the kind of climate. It's not all bad, you know. But I have some dear friends there, but a lot of who I am is in reaction to the bigotry, the sexual shame, the rigidity of Tuscaloosa.
Speaker 1:How did you become a therapist Like? Is that what you wanted to do?
Speaker 2:you know, I I think if it wasn't for some level of trauma, I would have just been a straight-up creative. It wasn't for the divorce and and my mom being a single mom and having to struggle and and worrying about getting out of Tuscaloosa, alabama, I probably would have been a creative. But that's not how things went. There's a lot of foreshadowing. I think my mother gave me my first book on sexuality when I was like six. It was age appropriate. It was called when, where Did, where Did I Come From? If you open the first flap, there's like a pattern on the inside and it's like a little sperm with a top hat and a cane in a pattern. You know like super, super cute.
Speaker 2:Mom and dad are like kind of chubby and making, like you know, having a bubble bath etc. You know. And I got age appropriate books about sexuality as I grew up. I was kind of like the Dr Ruth of lunchroom table by age five, you know. So that's kind of the sexual piece. I would, you know, get popsicle money by drawing art for my, my peers in like the second grade. So the art continued, you know, I later became an art therapist before I became who I am now. And then the trauma. You know, it's like I had friends that would tell me about their trauma. I had my own level of trauma. So all of these things. I think the last thing I'd say was, even in elementary school, if somebody was mean to someone else or if I was bullied, I'd come home and my mom would sit on the front living room sofa and explain to me, like she'd give me compassion but she'd also explain what makes a bully. So I was literally being groomed to be a therapist in elementary school.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting. I always look back and I was like I wanted to be a teacher and I'm like, well, I guess I kind of am a teacher in ways and I was like, how the hell did I get here? And I was like, oh, I remember I was raised by my grandparents and we had cable and I had a door, and so I watched a lot of taxicab confessions, a lot of real sex, red shoe diaries, the bunny house ranch, and I don't think I should have been per se watching such things.
Speaker 2:But look at me.
Speaker 1:Now it worked out like yeah, I'm like huh. Did you ever have like those moments? That was like that. You were like this. This just felt like the thing I always say that this work found me like some people seek it out. It was just like one of those things I was like oh well, I can't. Every time I try to do something else, it just brings me back to this.
Speaker 2:Ah yeah, I mean it was very much a progression. This is what I'll say and it may not answer your question directly, but maybe I'll find the answer as I go. There's been times in life where I have driven my destiny. There's been times in life where it felt like the universe grabbed me by the ear and yanked me along, kicking and screaming. I got off course in my 20s. I got. I have two MBA or I have two master's degrees. The first is an MBA. I was very much off course.
Speaker 2:No matter what I did, I'd metaphorically be running at the door to kick it down, to go to the next phase and just break my leg.
Speaker 2:When I finally came out to LA to be an art therapist initially, I do that same running leap at the door.
Speaker 2:The door would fling open and I would be by, you know, 50 feet in the next room, and so I think I don't know how you feel about the concept of synchronicity, but I think that was the thing that really let me know.
Speaker 2:I was 110% sure that I was on my right track. Was I started to have this weird synchronicity, weird things happen and I didn't even know it was a thing that some, you know, spiritual folks talk about, like Deepak Chopra. I just started to notice, like you know, things got way easier and things would happen that are just strange. Like I would be talking about Raquel Welch in the morning and my taxi, my Lyft driver, would talk about Raquel Welch on the way to the thing. Like these weird patterns started happening all the time, and then later on I read about how that was actually kind of a thing in spiritual groups and you can make what you will of it, but I just started to notice all these things that just made it feel like I was on the right path and the more I followed the right path, the more those things would happen.
Speaker 1:I think that answers the question beautifully. Yeah, I think it answered it, and I think that that is one of those things that often folks navigate but don't have language for and they're just like am I? And it makes them question themselves, which I love questions. I think that's how we get through life, that's how we grow. When I was asking about what you wanted to talk about today because I always ask my guests, I think it makes for a better conversation you wanted to talk about some things you haven't talked about, and today we're going to talk about your interwoven such a hard word for me. It's one of those words on my list woven journey with cancer and psychedelics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've talked about it a little bit, but it is definitely a new thing and I'm still learning how people react to it. So, and just jump in if I get too long winded, please. So in 2019, that's the first time that I got cancer Well, really, 2018. I just turned 50. It was the day after Christmas. I was in Tuscaloosa visiting my mom and I got a call from my gynecologist and she let me know I had cancer the day after Christmas and they caught it super early thanks to a lover that I had. So my lover at the time, amazing Jamaican artist.
Speaker 2:I was bleeding a little bit during sex. I had talked to my primary care physician about it. He said, oh, it's just premenopausal stuff, and so I wrote it off and he was just like promise me, you'll go to the gynecologist. And so I did and that's why they caught it the first time early. If it wasn't for him, it would have been a while because of certain factors. So you know, I had a hysterectomy and they took my uterus and cervix. I was scared I wouldn't be able to have cervical orgasms. There was a lot of fears. There was a lot of fear and but it didn't change my sex life. It didn't. I was very fortunate in a lot of ways, but that whole journey was scary, did?
Speaker 1:you, and did the surgery happen during the pandemic or was it before? Was it it was 2019?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, it was before, and just to make a little note that will show up later on in the story if you want to hear the whole story At that time. You know they do all these scans of your body when you have cancer, and so they had found a little nodule in my lung back then and I talked to my friend Pierre, who's a thoracic oncological surgeon, amongst other things, and he said a little, a lot of people have a nodule, just get it checked in a year, Um and and so you know, I just put a pin on it and in fact, uh, I I didn't even get a chat checked for, like four years later. But now I'm kind of getting ahead of myself in 2020. I had a psychedelic journey that helped me no longer be scared of the other side of death because of certain things I saw. Put a pin in that as well, because that adds to the story.
Speaker 2:So in 2023, I went to Costa Rica and I did a psychedelic journey three in fact. Journey three in fact and in the third journey, my lung area just felt like a concrete block and I was using all my skills as a therapist to try and clear it and I was struggling and I was suffering I finally shined a little light on myself, and when the facilitators came to help me and at that he tried to help me, but basically what ended up happening was my whole body started to go into waves of shakes and it felt like it was breaking down.
Speaker 2:Your body was the concrete block in my lung area. I felt like it was breaking down. But full body shakes what felt like an hour, and during that time, for some reason, I had this desire to have him put his hand on my upper chest and then on my forehead, and then on the top of my head in a rotation. So that's a whole story if you want to hear it down the road, so you can put a pin on that.
Speaker 2:We're going to have a lot of pins and let's see if we can remember all the little pins we put everywhere, cause it's a wild story that interweaves. And then, once the whole concrete what felt like a concrete block was gone in my lungs, then there was what felt like an hour of just feeling like my whole body was lit with the divine. It felt like I was the goddess and connected to the goddess, you know, and that, and just full body shakes for what it felt like an hour, and the facilitator would come and go, but he stayed with me almost entirely. That whole period of time, which felt like at least two hours, until I was just completely exhausted and I fell asleep, went back to my room. When I woke up, a whole bunch of stuff happened. And when I came home, a whole bunch of stuff happened in terms of what felt like a Kundalini awakening, and we can talk about that if you like, I'll put it in that Love a pen, yeah. So when I came home, I know enough about psychedelics not to ignore what happened to my lungs. So I got my lungs checked.
Speaker 2:The original nodule that was found in 2019 was deemed benign. They found a new nodule, which later they would find out was cancer. So just notice. So there's actually like about three different miracles that have already happened already. One if I had gotten the first nodule checked when I was supposed to in 2020, the second nodule would not have been there because it was so small. Even in 2023.
Speaker 2:The 2019 nodule would have been deemed benign and I would not have gone back until it was too late and I probably would not have survived. Does that make sense? It makes so much sense. Wow. Miracle number one. Miracle number two is that it felt like the psychedelic let me know to go back to get my lungs checked, and that also saved my life. Miracle number three that is a little bit later in the story, but I'll just say it now is that usually, when that amount of time four years have gone by between the first cancer and the second cancer because this did turn out to be metastatic cervical cancer that traveled to my lungs Usually in that four years it would be all over the body.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was not. Later on in the story, you find out that it's just this little teeny place and even after lung surgery on October 4th of last year, they couldn't find anything. In mid 2023, I was talking to my first surgeon, dr Lin, and my second surgeon for my lungs, dr Kim. They were both talking to me. These are brilliant doctors that were referred to me through Pierre City of Hope, top of the line, and they're both like stage four you're probably not going to live. You know, like they were. They were letting me know that I was going to die.
Speaker 1:What happened when you hear that information? Like what did you think? Like, how did you feel, how did your body respond?
Speaker 2:Well, I Googled it, of course, like we're all not supposed to do.
Speaker 2:And I saw the stats which were incredibly not comforting. I talked to Pierre about it. He said that they were wrong. Although he has all the respect in the world for them, he's like he felt like they were wrong for certain reasons. So I one, I was incredibly confused because Pierre is globally recognized Like he's Ivy league educated, top of the line. So I'm having three doctors they all brilliant tell me different things. Um, it wasn't my first rodeo, like the first time around.
Speaker 2:I was also kind of it when you, when you hear that kind of stuff, it's kind of like death is right here and by your cheek going hey, how you doing. Yeah, it's just like right there. And in fact, when you find out you have metastatic cancer, which I you know, even though it's in remission now, it's still metastatic and a lot of people might get confused by that. And I'll explain it this way A PET scan cannot pick up super teeny tiny cancer. So even though the PET scan says there's no cancer and there's no detectable cancer that's the key word right there there's no detectable cancer.
Speaker 2:It should be a neon light. But you know and a lot of people can't take the stuff in, Like Deepak Chopra even has like a stat on this that almost all people just binge watch TV through their cancer. It's very rare for somebody to like use it as a spiritual journey or really learn how to contend with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah super rare, Anyway. Where am I at so? Okay, so when a person has metastatic cervical cancer, even when it's in remission, or I could just speak for myself cancer is your roommate, Cancer is riding shotgun, you know. And so then you have to decide how do you want to live with that? You know, for me, now I'm jumping forward to 2024.
Speaker 2:But the way I've chosen to live it, live with it, is to live simultaneously, as if I'm going to live a short life and a long life, and that I knew that intellectually, but it took me a while to wrap my head around it. Emotionally, which is still a process, and logistically, yeah, I was gonna say balance, but how I'm living a long time, which could happen, and I could explain why. I think that it would take me not phoning it in. So every day I meditate and in fact, just quickly. Sometimes I get messages in the liminal space between dream and wake and it's usually just a sentence and it doesn't feel like it comes from me. And one time I was in the liminal space and you know, again, very dreamlike place, and I remember saying like how can I live? And one word came in and said meditate. Now, if you think that sounds crazy, right? I mean, you live, you, you survive cancer because you get the operation, because you do chemo, all that and I have done two operations. So I'm not. Please, if you're listening, please don't hear that I'm saying you should meditate rather than getting treatment. Please do that. Yes, there's no way in a million years. But when I was talking to Pierre about that as a piece of my plan, he's like he said well, I don't know. You know, and this is a thing when you meditate. This is my opinion. Other people meditate for different reasons. Some people just do it as a coping skill.
Speaker 2:I feel like part of meditating at this point because I've been doing it on and off since my 30s is it could potentially connect you to source energy and from that place there's messages that come in that aren't necessarily from you working really hard to think things out and figure out what supplements you need to take, blah, blah, blah. There's like messages that come in. So, anyway, I'm being long-winded. But going back to your question of how do you do both. So assuming that I'm going to live a long life goes with the whole package meditating, exercising every day, listening to my doctors, being as connected to source as possible.
Speaker 2:So taking my supplements, taking my Chinese medicine, like all of that stuff I do every day, along with all the other stuff my podcast, my private practice, writing my book, et cetera. My second book, and then assuming that I might live a short life, is little things like the fact that I just did a photo shoot with the amazing Troy Jensen. If you need pictures, he's awesome Because I'm about to get my CT scan at the end of this month and if it came out that I had cancer, they might jump in with chemo and I might lose my hair, and I wanted new pictures for my website with with glorious hair, you know, and I made sure that that happened with the off chance that things could turn in a negative way. So those are just two examples of how I do both.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like a mind fuck, though, to just like or I think, in words that I would say to other people it's like you just stay ready so you don't have to get ready. Like you stay in that balance of like this may or may not, but I'd like to be ready for whichever happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, this is the thing when you have cancer, and especially when you're smart. When you have cancer and you're surrounded by ridiculously smart people that love you like I'm blessed enough to have they all have very strong opinions about what you should do.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Which can drive you completely insane, and so you know. So, basically, I listened for a long time, I realized that it was driving me insane and I finally, like, created a plan on the daily and on the monthly. And then I realized that at a certain point I had to kind of put a boundary up. It's not like a concrete boundary, like if somebody says something brilliant and it sounds right, I'll edit in. But in general, I created my plan of how to live my life and I stick with that and then you let go. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I'm also like that's so great, I love that I'm not receiving right now, but thank you so much. Right, and that's okay. That's okay and I think it also. I'm one of those folks that feels like the ways that we show up and take care of ourselves really teaches other folks how they can teach take care of their selves and how they can set the boundaries and all the things. So I'm like I hope someone walks away like wow, kate, really has a good boundary there.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go try and do that for myself. Yeah, I mean, everybody has their experience and the thing is, with something like cancer it is, things come in waves, including your emotion comes in waves. The news you'll get good news and you'll get shitty news, and you'll get great news and then you'll get fucking horrible news and it's just like this. And so you know, even though I'm telling you kind of my 2024 plan, that doesn't mean that there wasn't a million times that I was crawling in a ball crying yeah. And then there's other times where I feel completely connected to spirit, like in November, right after my lung surgery last year.
Speaker 2:This was still when I was mostly hearing the bad news. The thing is, the thing is when you have someone that dies, then you're grieving everything about them. When you're the one that might die, then you're letting go of every fucking thing. If you're doing it consciously, like every leaf, every friend, every that David Bowie song you like, you know that, yeah just like everything about life that you loved, hated and, in the in between, your cats, all that.
Speaker 2:and so in the month of November, it was like everything that I saw. I was seeing it like a the first time, like a little three-year-old at Christmas, or a little three-year-old that's watching the paintbrush in the red paint with the blue paint on the brush turn purple and they're like, oh my God, like I was that kind of wonder, plus the idea that I might be losing these people. So, seeing things from the first time and the last time simultaneously, and I was crying constantly. That makes sense, but in a good way, you know, but in a if it makes sense in a good way. And I wouldn't if somebody told me, okay, we can take your cancer away, but you'd lose that month of November. I think from my experience, since I didn't have to do radiation, chemo and all that, I would say no, because it just took me to a level of. It was like gratitude on crack. It was like gratitude times a bazillion.
Speaker 1:What have these psychedelics given you? And like, how have they supported you pre and post?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I mentioned the journey. That was in 2020, so it was during the pandemic and, uh, when I did that particular journey, um, um and I'm not going to mention the type of psychedelic because I don't want to influence people too much, but there was two psychedelics involved. The first psychedelic came on and it felt like every little cell in my body was experiencing love that was bigger than anything I'd experienced or witnessed. And around that same time, the second psychedelic came in, and so now they're interweaving and basically, this shifting started to happen where, all of a sudden, I was out of my body and I say I because that's how the English language works, but I was in this field. That was limitless and timeless. That again was love that was beyond anything that I experienced or witnessed. And now I'm in my body again, and now I'm in the expanse and I kept flipping and I said to myself I'm scared, I'm going to forget this and a voice came in and said that's why I keep flipping you, so that you won't forget.
Speaker 2:And so, and then a million things happened in that journey. That was just the very beginning, but in 2023, when I was going through the roughest part, where I was being told that, you know, at stage four I was going to die it was that part that helped with one piece of death. There's different pieces of death. That's one of many where I wasn't afraid of the other side and that was incredibly. I, I, I can't tell you how helpful that was. I would want that for anybody going through cancer and, unfortunately, psychedelics are non-specific amplifiers. So, just because I had that experience, does not mean another person would Sure, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's one thing that that journey did. And then I already told you what the journey at the beginning of 2023 did, where I literally feel like, yeah, it kind of saved my life. You could say yeah.
Speaker 1:Is this how it's led to you now wanting to do this work with other folks?
Speaker 2:yeah and uh. I mean I almost feel like you'd have to be an asshole to be given all of these gifts and be a therapist and have the means to get that training under your belt and not do it again. It's like I talked to you about sometimes the unit, sometimes I drive my density and sometimes the universe grabs me by the ear. This doesn't feel like the universe grabbing me by the ear. It just it feels like the universe just kind of sitting next to me and going, you know, just kind of like showing me the table and going look at the, look at all of this. Yeah, you know, and uh, and it's just so apparent of the things that I need to do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you have a plan, since you just finished the? Did you just finish this program?
Speaker 2:yeah, and as soon as I stopped that when I started a new program that to sit with ketamine, but, but, but, uh, that that's not the leading plan.
Speaker 1:What's the plan now? I'm just nosy.
Speaker 2:Well, there's different pieces, but so this brings me back to one of the pins.
Speaker 1:So now we're remembering that.
Speaker 2:There you go. So, uh, you know, I mentioned that in that third psychedelic journey. After I woke up, I walked back to my room, fell asleep and I woke up with the sun rising in Costa Rica Super beautiful. This was the beginning of what would be something akin to a kundalini awakening that lasted for three weeks. But in that initial phase it was like all these creative ideas because, remember, I'm, I'm basically a creative that's been taken on this wacky path All these creative ideas are just like going through me rapid fire.
Speaker 2:And then, all of a sudden, there was one creative I won't even call it an idea, idea, because it felt very like Nostradamus-ish, you know, like it was just like almost like this monument that was telling me not what I might do, but what I was going to do, whether I wanted to or not. Like it was just destiny that I would write a book through the lens of my body. Now, at the time, I thought, okay, well, that doesn't. I thought, okay, well, that doesn't entirely make sense. Okay, yes, I'm a non-monogamous person, I've experienced tons of group sex, you know, I've had a very body-based life and, yes, I'm doing some psychedelics in order to have this path. But it doesn't quite make sense. And then I came home and found out I had cancer again, and that became the third body-based thing, and so I started writing my second book then.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:It started out being a soup. Now it's kind of like a diary. I don't know how it ends yet, but I'm just so again, it didn't feel uh, how should I? So that that's like the main thing that I need to do amongst the other stuff that I'm doing.
Speaker 1:So that's like the main thing that I need to do amongst the other stuff that I'm doing. I love your brain. It just makes my brain feel like someone else is also wacky and out there doing so many things. I love it. I love it. I'm like my people.
Speaker 1:I know for myself as being on the other side of losing my dad last year to cancer and like it went away, his prostate cancer spread to his bones and it was just such a quick decline and I feel like he navigated a lot of it in silence because of just pride and who he is. And the last conversation I did have with him was the week before he died. It was like right before I went to travel and it was the first time he responded differently to a question I'd asked many times are you scared? And he said yes, and that's for me. I knew that he had already had that conversation with self, that it was coming, or like the acknowledgement of self that he was going to die the following week. Did you navigate all of this in silence or did you lean into community?
Speaker 2:You know. So it's two journeys. So when I had it the first time for a while, I was just so devastated. And the person that I was dating although I'm grateful to him for basically saving my life he grew up in Jamaica and his whole life was way harder than mine has ever been, and so to me he's just like you're going to be fine. So I didn't really and I wanted somebody to I really didn't have the comfort initially.
Speaker 2:I remember the first person I told, or one of the first people I told, was the guy who gives me my contacts. What is that? It's not an ophthalmologist, it's an optometrist, right? And I was just picking up my contacts or something, and I just decided to tell him and he goes who's your, who's your oncologist? No, that's the one that gives you the chemo Oncological surgeon. Those words are so hard. I know there's like. I know I didn't know this shit either until the last couple of years and I said Dr Lin. And he goes oh, dr Lin is my neighbor, you're going to be fine, he's a wonderful doctor. My aunt went to him. She's fine now, you're going to be fine Now. What's the fucking chance of that?
Speaker 1:That's crazy like why?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean like you're, you're saying, hi, you know another wacky. So I mean, honestly, I have been science-based most of my life. I I have been spock like, like, you know, spock like and intellectual to a fault all through my 30s. And again, if 30 year old me saw me now she'd be like, oh so you went wackadoodle, all right, right, great, you know, like, honestly, you know. But this is the kind of shit that keeps happening in my life, you know, since we're. So that was the beginning of me starting to talk to different people and it just kind of broadened as I got kind of used to the how do you get used to cancer. But I mean, as I started to shore myself up enough, then I could kind of open up. And the more I opened up then the more support. And it created this positive feedback loop where you get stronger the more you tell people that are good anchors.
Speaker 1:But at first I was just so devastated and fragile I just telling anybody was too hard at first yeah, how did you balance a very giving job as working in mental health and having your body doing all this, because our work does affect our bodies, like some days I'm like, oh, don't touch me, don't talk to me, don't look at. So how did you navigate all of that happening at one time?
Speaker 2:Well, well, first off, this is a little broader, but I didn't tell any of my clients the first time or the second time until I was completely fine.
Speaker 1:You're like, by the way, had cancer. Good, so anyway not quite that.
Speaker 2:I would use a whole session for them to just like process, you know, and I slow and I put a little check next to the name of the person until I told everybody, uh, that was a client at that particular time. Um, so you know, that was. That was the first thing you were saying. How did I take care of my body? Is that the question? Again, I've been working out at the gym since my 20s, so, you know, as long as I, I, you know, and Pierre was like as soon as you can walk, try and do it, don't push yourself too much, but it allows your lymphatic system to kick in and you will heal quicker if you get out there and start walking as soon as you can. And so I did that without you know. Again, I didn't hurt myself, but so there was, there was, that is, is far, I believe. You know, when you think about being a trauma therapist, you process and then you resource, you pendulate, and so I do that in life allow myself to cry and then I pendulate towards positivity.
Speaker 2:Deepak Chopra says that, and I wasn't trying to do this, but I think there's some wisdom in this. He said if you want spontaneous healing, that wasn't what I was trying to do. If you want spontaneous healing, he says, create a state in your body that feels like being in love, and so I was just trying to have the best positive outcome right, and so, starting back in 2019, I use that advice is next time around too. I tried to be in the most loving state and that creates neurochemical changes in the body. It's going to reduce your cortisol, it's going to amplify your positive neurochemicals, like all you know. Your body's going to relax. Your immune system is probably going to go up. I'm not a doctor, but I mean you can Google this stuff Like the more you put yourself in a positive frame of mind, the more you can amplify your chance of moving through something Again pendulating. I'd let myself cry. It wasn't like I was stuffing or being little Miss Positive pants, you know, and I just moved through those two places and that was a very body-based experience.
Speaker 1:Is there anything that you wish you knew? That now you know about cancer or psychedelics and support? Like I know you've known about psychedelics, but like how they heal or support.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean honestly everything. There are there. There are things that part of me wishes that. I mean honestly everything. There are there. There are things that part of me wishes that. I know a lot of things I ended up knowing when I needed to know them, and if I had known everything all at once, I probably would have burst into flames.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, the overwhelm of it.
Speaker 2:You're like ah yeah, and so, as things unfolded, I think and I don't even think, I don't even know if you can undo something like this I think just the experience of having cancer, like I said, is so crazy. Making where they're like you're going to die. Nope, you're probably not going to die. You know you're probably going to have to do everything chemo, radiation, immunotherapy as a cocktail all at once. You know, and then all of a sudden, sorry, never mind scratch, that we're not doing any of that. You know, like I wish it wasn't so crazy making, even when you have the very best doctors and expensive insurance.
Speaker 2:Um, I think my wishes for related to cancer are not for me but for other people, like, for instance, last year.
Speaker 2:One thing that I didn't know is that with my insurance that's decent insurance they were hooking me up with pretty good cancer doctors when I was just looking for a surgeon as soon as I might need oncology.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden they want, wanted to send me to this horrible place and I found out and this is important for everybody to know is that because oncology, chemo etc. Is so expensive that an insurance company that would normally give you a good surgeon might give you a place that you could go to die when it comes to oncology. And I literally said to my oncologist so basically what I did was when I needed an oncologist, luckily it was during open enrollment, so I just paid his full fee in December, which was like over $500 for one session and then crazy expensive and then I switched over to a different insurance that accepted him and come January 1, I saw him and I told him. I said I'll be frank with you. I feel like if I had stayed with the oncology clinic they wanted to send me to, I might have died. And he said I hate to tell you, but I agree with you. It's like there is a hierarchy when it comes to oncology.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And it's like it's those kind of thing. If I could wish anything, I would just wish that everybody could get good treatment. And, and you know, it's like when I think about jaya's I don't know if you know anything about jaya's partners. Um, you know, for folks that don't know, jaya is like one of the most well-known sex positive therapists or not. She's's not therapists, but leaders.
Speaker 1:She created the rock blueprints.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right. And so last year both of her long-term partners of over a decade both got cancer.
Speaker 1:No Wow.
Speaker 2:But the first one. They're so wealthy I'm sure they're millionaires. I'm guessing, based on the house that I've seen.
Speaker 1:I'll accept this. Yes, I'll receive it. I said I'll receive that with you.
Speaker 2:I mean regardless. They're very, very wealthy. John, one of our two partners was to uh get this type of treatment where they literally replicate your dna and feed it back to you they're wealthy right, yeah, I was like yes right and he was supposed to die in two months. But once he got that treatment and it was horrific but I didn't even know that was an option.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm not telling you about the whole thing. That's an aspect where they take your DNA and they replicate. There's all kinds of crazy wild things that you have to do Not in my tax bracket Nor mine, and you know.
Speaker 2:And so he did it. It was horrific, it was hard, and now he's in remission, he's fine. You know, it was hard and now he's in remission and he's fine, you know. And so when people are like, oh, cancer can come for everybody, and it's like, yeah, but whether you survive or not definitely has a bearing on what you have access to, and I wish I could change that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, Absolutely. When you were choosing the psychedelics that you were using, and if someone is listening and they're like there's so many things, what should I do? Like, what did you do to choose yours, To choose whatever kind of psychedelics you did utilize?
Speaker 2:I mean I'm lucky because I'm in circles with what I believe are some of the best therapists in LA, sure, you know. And so as far as Costa Rica goes, you know that was a retreat center. I just got on Google and researched what are the top retreat centers in Costa Rica, because that's where I wanted to go for this particular psychedelic and I pulled up to. I looked at the reviews. It looked like the one that I went to was way more focused on smaller groups and more intimate than the other one, and so that's why I chose it. And you know, and then there was some other synchronicity that happened within 24 hours that backed that decision. So that was that one.
Speaker 2:There have been people that I've gone to that are psychotherapists, that it's been through word of mouth within my community. So I know I'm going to the very very best within my community. So I know I'm going to the very very best. Yeah, so I would just say to ask around and you know, and a lot of people do know this, but I would say set and setting. You know, set and setting is everything so many people do psychedelics and they're not in the right mindset or they don't have the right environment and that can completely shift your experience.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I think that's so important. Whenever I have been on a journey or whatnot, I've like set the mood. People are like no, no, no, there's pillows. I want to have everything that's near me, that's comfortable. Maybe I want art supplies near me, I don't know, I want to. Maybe I want art supplies near me, I don't know. I want to have these little areas that allow me to do what I need. So that that means so much to me, to for folks to know that. I think it's so important because people, just people, take things recreationally and I accept that and I say do what you need to do, but but if you're going to do it in an intentional way, be intentional. That is what I will say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and certainly there's folks that have sex on psychedelics. But you know, I sometimes I can be like mom, you know, like you know a mom to my clients, et cetera. It's like I just hear so many stories of people how should I say? They become non-monogamous, they want to be cool, you know, cool poly, and so they're like, oh well, if I do this drug, then I'll be okay with having sex with this person. And then later on they come to me to do EMDR to move through the trauma, because they realize in hindsight that it was not. They said yes, but it wasn't a true yes, and so then they feel traumatized, and so that's another thing that I would say is like I kind of steer away from the concept of pairing psychedelics and sex unless you know before you even do it that the person that you're doing it with is a true yes, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:What brings you joy?
Speaker 2:You know, like last year, especially when I was going through the period where I wasn't sure if I was going to live, I was just like all about joy, and now I have it narrowed down to realizing that what I really love is a division of joy which is wonder, go on, you know.
Speaker 2:So it goes back to some of the wacky things that I've told you about, like these things that, even though it makes me wonder, I'm like okay, crazy, isn't a good look for a psychotherapist, you know, but the things that have happened, that are so wondrous and beautiful, make me so happy, even though I'm blown away and scratching my head. You know, like, what happened in that journey, especially in the second hour, where I felt like I was connected to the divine and part of the divine, that was so wondrous, it was, it was ecstatic, which, to me, in that experience, it it was. I've had sex with porn stars, I've had amazing orgies, you know, I've, like, done all the things and, honestly, on an erotic standpoint, that was better than any of that and it was wondrous, you know, and that's saying something you're like I've been outside, but that was even better, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I've had the kind of sex life that would make a busload of nuns. It's true Swim, you know Right, but some of those experiences have been one more wondrous and more sensual than than all of that, you know, and that just brings me a lot of happiness. But sometimes, sometimes, wonder is in the small things. I mean, that's one of the things that my mom taught me. We'd go on a walk in nature and she'd be like look at how the sun shines through this leaf, look at how they interact with each other. And you know, I mean that's one journey that I had just a couple of months ago and it sounds like I'm doing psychedelics all the time. I don't. I've actually done it very, very sparingly. I've done well. I'm not going to list the different types, but it's been very, very sparingly.
Speaker 2:But in that journey I saw something that I could barely, you know, make sense of, you know, you know, make sense of. And I went home and I was watching a movie on psychedelics and they were talking about Indra's net of jewels, and you can Google it and the metaphor of Indra's net of jewels is is like, if you imagine, like, say, a spider web or something, and there's like a dew drop or there's a jewel, and the spider web is part of the universe, but inside of that jewel or that dew drop is the universe, it's the concept that there's a greater in universe, but then even in a leaf is a whole universe.
Speaker 2:So to speak, and so I think that's part of how I see wonder that even if I got to a place where I couldn't travel to different places, that there's wonder just in the little ladybug that's going by.
Speaker 1:This is such a fun convo, I feel. So you and I have talked about these things of course, not here and I remember one of the journeys that I had I was, I always talk to it I'm like so what am I doing? Is this who I'm supposed to be like? Am I moving in the right direction, or whatever.
Speaker 1:And I remember it was during the pandemic and I looked to my right and it was like my closet door opened and all of these women it was just a line of black women that came out, some that I knew and some that I had seen, photos, whatever and it was just like the women of my family. And it was just like you're supposed to do this. You're supposed to use this medicine to help other black women have a great day. We love you, we're proud of you. And I just sobbed for that kind of affirmation, that kind of connection, that kind of no one's going to believe this. And I'll tell people and they'll be like sure it happened. And it's when you have those kind of moments it's like, okay, cool. But now it's like years later, and I'm like, after conversations with you and like having conversation, I was like it's coming.
Speaker 1:Like it's coming, like it's coming, and it's interesting when you feel the thing shift into place. Did you feel something just shift into place for you, when you're like, okay, time to do this next training, like I know what I want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean again with the synchronicity. I'll give you another example. There's the synchronicity. I'll give you another example. There's more synchronicity with certain people, with Pierre and my friend Jenna. Jenna's pretty high up in the psychedelic movement. I'll just give you an example.
Speaker 2:So I decided to go to the psychedelic science convention last year and this was while I had cancer. It's a crazy pants, some of the things I did while I had cancer. Flew to Denver while I had cancer. This is so crazy pants Some of the things I did while I had cancer. Um, flew to Denver. Um, I was taking that class with fluence. So this conference was the biggest psychedelic conference in the history of the world in 2023, massive amount of people there.
Speaker 2:I show up, I check in. Within 10 minutes I run into Jenna and there's a guy from my fluence class who had said in the class oh, come to the main area. Chakruna will be there, I'll be doing Rappe and stuff like that. When I get to the conference, I run into Jenna within 30 seconds. She's like hi, do you want to go to the chakruna tent and do rapping? She didn't even know about this other guy. So it's just stuff like that, where it's just like what is the freaking chance of that? That is crazy pants. And it's just like when I noticed that really tight synchronicity, I'm like, okay, I'm supposed to do this and I just keep following, following those things. I'm not the kind of person that sees a hummingbird and goes, oh, it's a hummingbird, that's a sign. No, dude, there's a million hummingbirds in LA, there's a million hummingbirds in LA. I'm not that person. I'm talking about this weird stuff where you're just like what is the?
Speaker 1:freaking, undeniable, You're like well okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know what it means, I don't know why it happens. I just noticed that when it there's, if when I'm off track, it's like nothing works, and when I'm on track, this is the kind of stuff that happens. It's you know, and so that's kind of how I know, and then I just kind of follow my nose. What do you want to?
Speaker 1:achieve before the end of the year.
Speaker 2:Ah, 2024.
Speaker 1:Yep, it's been a, it's been a time. We've got some months left.
Speaker 2:Uh yeah, I don't. I, you know, I think I just finished my certificate, you know, and so the ketamine certificate won't be done, my book won't be done. So I'm kind of in the middle of a whole bunch of stuff. I don't think there's anything that's going to be done by the end of 2024. I'll be kind of like in the middle of a whole bunch of stuff, which is okay. It's okay to be in the middle.
Speaker 1:I'm a runaway person. That sounds crazy. Let me fix that. I like to go away on vacations. Um how do you take care of yourself now, like, do you need time away, do you need time with people? Like, what recharges Kate?
Speaker 2:All right, so now I can answer your first question, cause I didn't, so I'm answering both questions. Um, so one thing that will be done is my trip to Thailand and Cambodia and again, if your audience doesn't think I'm kooky already now I'm going to, so now they're going to think I'm even more kooky. Okay, so in the second journey in Costa Rica, I saw this image in the journey that looked kind of like Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom, you know, kind of like there was these faces, it was like green moss, but it looked like it was underwater and they were talking, but I couldn't hear the words and it looked very specific. I came home months later.
Speaker 2:I'm just looking at YouTube videos and I see anchor what, which I videos, and I see anchor what, which I've never heard of anchor what it's actually like. It's. It's now considered one of the top 10 world wonders. It's so crazy that people don't know about it and I didn't know about it. It's like I might have this quote slightly wrong, but it's like the, the, the biggest religious temple in the world.
Speaker 2:You can Google it, it's like the biggest religious temple in the world. You can Google it. It's like there's huge National Geographic things. I'll send you something on it, anyway. So I'm watching it and I'm like, holy shit, that's what I saw in the second journey. I'm like, all right, I'm just going to go there. And so, yeah, bought a ticket to Cambodia and Thailand, go in there in November. That trip will be done and part of that trip is going to be in the jungle of Cardamon Mountains. That sounds wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's gonna be pretty wild.
Speaker 1:Are you going by yourself?
Speaker 2:I am going with a group called G Adventures. It's really good for women. So if you are a woman and you're, you don't have a buddy to go with you, but you want a group, you can go with G Adventures and meet up with them and you'll be with a group and it's usually mostly women, but any gender can go. So I'm going with them.
Speaker 1:As we wrap up, something that always is a conversation for me around trauma and bodies and things is safety. When you were navigating the last three years, what did safety feel like for you?
Speaker 2:What did safety feel like? I think it would depend on the hour. Um, I think Pierre felt like safety. Uh, and that's another wild story he came into my life in 2016, just showed up in my DMS. We dated for a bit.
Speaker 2:Um, if I knew that a thoracic oncological surgeon, a cancer doctor, was going to show up in my year in my DMS, two years after I got cancer, I mean again, this is all crazy pants, but he was there throughout the first and the second journey. He would check in on me every day, whether I was having a good day or a bad day, whether I said I don't, I don't need anything, pierre, it's just like he was always there. How are you doing, kate? How's today? Like, and it's just, he's just a freaking angel, just a freaking angel. Um, I can get emotional about that. Um, and just all my friends, yeah, and and city of hope. City of hope is a lot of angels at city of hope. I couldn't speak. I mean, they're, they're freaking, amazing, just a whole team. Um, and, being in california, we're so blessed to be in California it's like, yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel somewhere else. I felt so less safe in the South, I feel so much safer in California. Um yeah, I could go on, but those are a few.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I think this has been such a explorative conversation for me, like I think I have such a a better understanding and I am so appreciative of you, um, for sharing this journey, and also like opening my eyes to things that I think my dad was going through, that I didn't have an understanding of, um, so I didn't know that was going to be a thing. So thank you, um. Since we do talk about such fun things I think we're talking about. Trauma is fun and hard things, you know, but since we do, I always like to end the show on a fun, nosy tip. What is the wildest thing someone has texted, emailed or DMed you in the last two weeks? Wildest relative, and if you're like I don't have anything for two weeks, whatever, just the wildest thing someone's been sliding to you these days.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, uh, just on a daily basis, I hear so many wild different things because my clients are like kinky, non-monogamous sex workers, you know, just on a daily basis. And then my girlfriends are sex workers and and and and all that. Honestly, a lot of things about sex. Don't knock me on my butt anymore.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I'm like Okay yeah, I've seen it done it like in my friends have seen it done it like we still talk about sex, our humors around sex, all of that. But it's honestly this world of psychedelics that like floors me, like just in the last couple of I mean just recently people have been talking about and this isn't a happy thing, but well, it depends. So some people that have psychedelic experiences experience what they call entities and it can, I think you know, a lot of times it shows up as as ancestors like you experienced. Or the first thing that I saw was an iridescent blue bear with masculine energy that like helped me through a hard time in a journey, you know. But sometimes people experience things that they call entities and there's been people that feel like they're being stalked by these entities that they connect with in psychedelic journeys. Yeah, you know one thing that is so that that gets super scary.
Speaker 2:When I talked to one of my friends high up in the psychedelic movement, she said that is super duper rare. She said in general and I asked her like how do you contend with that? And she said the same way you do in life, like if you're in line at Gelson's and somebody's getting in your space bubble you. You might just say hey, dude, you're giving me a little space please, you know. Or if a friend is too far up in your grill, you might just say can you please move back? I just feel a little claustrophobic. You know, she said it's the same thing. You just ask them to move back.
Speaker 2:And they will, like you set a boundary and for the most part, if you're in a good place, they they move back. So, again, like, all this stuff sounds so crazy, but a lot of people in the psychedelic movement that are psychotherapists or leaders are talking about this stuff, and so it's. It's, it sounds crazy, but you can find books on the topic, all kinds of stuff, and so I yeah, I'm still blown away by topics like that. I'm just like how, what has happened to my life? What is going on in my freaking?
Speaker 1:life Expansiveness you are expansive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like this little girl that used to have a crush on Spock, you know, and it was so up in her head. And now my life is spiritual and psychedelic and expansive.
Speaker 1:Who, knew I love it for you. Where can he, she, they, them, zz and everyone? Where can they find you? Where can they find your work? Where can they get in your business? Where can they do all of that?
Speaker 2:Well, my way, my website is just my name. Well, my website is just my name kateloreecom. So that's K-A-T-E, last name L-O-R-E-E. I also have a podcast called Open Deeply, and in fact, you referenced it when you were talking about your ancestors. There's a couple of episodes with you on Open Deeply where you talk about all that and much more, so I'd invite people to check out those episodes on open deeply. I'm also, you know, on instagram, open deeply with kate larie. That's a mouthful. Uh, that's probably the best place to find me. I'm kind of lame about doing tiktok videos.
Speaker 2:It takes so much I don't have, it's a lot yeah, I'm on facebook and all that, but those are the. And then there's also my book. Open deeply if you're into non-monogamy, it's it's. Some people call it a harm reduction manual. It's um, uh, unlike some, like poly secure is is more just about attachment theory. My book like hits a lot of different things attachment theory, communication skills. I give a million different vignettes. I talk about the most common things that happen in my practice and a lot of people. The main thing I get from people is people saying it felt like you were talking about my relationship. It felt so close to home. And I always say back I'm like yeah, because your experience is like a lot of people's experience. But people don't say that at the party when they're you know, yeah, so it's interesting.
Speaker 1:You give us so many good gems, so I'm just so, I just feel very revived from this conversation today. So thank you for being here, thank you for sharing with us. Is there anything?
Speaker 2:you'd like to say before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, please, is there anything else you'd like to say before we say goodbye?
Speaker 2:I guess I just want to thank well, thank you for having me on, but thank you for the work you do in, you know, related to trauma. I think you reach a whole other demographic of folks that might not find resources otherwise and that's such a freaking blessing. You know there's a lot of folks out there that might not get help if it weren't for you.
Speaker 1:It's chaotic and Gemini-like Welcome yeah, so All right y'all before I start crying. Yeah. So All right y'all Before I start crying cause feelings until next time, I'm just going to wrap it Alrighty.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
